Should a PIVX-Dash merger be explored?
- Thread starter Jeffrey
- Start date
abj
New Pivian
Funny you ask this -- someone over in the Dash forum just suggested the opposite thing -- that he could see only PIVX benefitting from a merger.
I'll copy-paste my response to him:
"If someone came to you and said he'd give you a 400 Troy ounce gold bar, but only if he could give two of them to the man next to you... would you say no?
Isn't it always better to be better off?
Besides, if you really believed that the PIVX holder would be better off than the Dash holder after a merger, you would simply sell some Dash for PIVX ahead of time, and scoop up the very profits you say you'd envy.
Win-win all around.
Finally, as to the overall benefits, they are the reasons that mergers have taken place in every competitive environment throughout history: the merging parties both end up with more resources of every kind. We'd both have more users, more developers who know the Dash codebase, and potentially lower combined infrastructure costs.
And potentially the most powerful of all, we may well both end up with far more market attention than we had before. Because this market does not need another token or blockchain. Everyone is sick to death of them. What it needs is fewer, better blockchains.
It's time for consolidation. How else will digital cash be able to compete with digital gold?"
----
What are your thoughts?
Eric_Stanek
Active Pivian
Ya. As soon as possible, the opportunity was made public for transparency and to involve the Community. But, since nothing has been decided it is hard to evaluate.
Another approach, would be to just make an assumption that there is a 'Win-Win' in there somewhere, and both Communities try to find it. If it can't be found, well there's the answer.
We know Dash wants PoS and Privacy. What does Dash offer than PIVX wants?
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abj
New Pivian
It cannot be said for certain what the Dash network as a whole wants in terms of consensus mechanism and privacy implementation without an actual DAO vote. Proof of stake and zk-snarks have been discussed extensively over the years, yes, but without an actual governance vote, it's all just talk.
It would be the job of the people behind a merger effort to come up with what they thought the best combined vision was and to pitch it to the network, in iterations if need be. The approved vision would ideally then go up for a bid on research and development. Which development team can reasonably give us the desired result in the least time for the best price? (How exactly we pay them -- from which chain -- has not yet been thought out.)
To your last question: Dash wants PIVX's userbase, developers, market valuation, and possibly some tech. PIVX wants Dash's userbase, developers, market valuation, and possibly the name.
johnnylaw
New Pivian
My gut reaction with very little introspection is "No." If attempting to nail where that reaction was coming from down, I think it would be all of my past interactions with the community through the years. Having said that, sometimes mergers are truly creating something greater than the parts, though rarely through a "merger of equals." Having said all of that I would need to: 1. Get a vibe for core community and where their collective head is at. 2. Re-investigate their technicals and decision making in the last 3 years. 3. Begin to roadmap how the paths could potentially converge and extrapolate into the future destinations/potholes.
johnnylaw
New Pivian
This is the core of the matter from my perspective: Is there something of value, worth the detour from the present trajectory.
I believe the market share that DASH has / used to have is the most interesting part.
This means vendors and acceptance of DASH payments.
Additionally the user base would bring more volume that is essential to DEX and CEX, bringing more options and exposure.
And imagine the exposure when everyone is talking about a merge between DASH and PIVX all over the crypto community! That might generate a crazy hype to the project.
This means vendors and acceptance of DASH payments.
Additionally the user base would bring more volume that is essential to DEX and CEX, bringing more options and exposure.
And imagine the exposure when everyone is talking about a merge between DASH and PIVX all over the crypto community! That might generate a crazy hype to the project.
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SiggeB
Pivian
I respectfully disagree. Looking at how the market share looks right now just gives us a part of the story. Hopes for the future play a big role when people decide where to put their money. Markets never show the actual value of the asset, the prices always includes hopes and fears for the future. I might be a little biased, but from what I see DASH is declining, while PIVX is doing a lot, and that quite effectively, to extend their market share. From that standpoint I rather invest more in PIVX than in DASH.
DASH doesn't seem to act from a position of strength, imo.
Cryptosi
Active Pivian
Yes, I really like the way it was done, it opened up discussion to be as transparent as possible, I'd like if the main protagonists could now give their views on how things could/would work so that those of us without huge imaginations are given some sort of starting point to think from.
This would be a great topic for a video from the Dash incubator @abj with a couple of guests from PIVX invited who think both positively and negatively on the prospects.
If nothing else this has garnered so real positive engagement and really set peoples minds into overdrive. I love to see it so thanks to all involved!
Eric_Stanek
Active Pivian
There are likely opportunities for collaboration with Dash, so I was open to helping get the conversation going. But other than that, I remained neutral. A project merge needs a TON of communication on both sides.
One collaboration that may be a good start, is a joint effort on developing PIVmetheus for each project. It, along with 2 or 3 similar solutions, were proposed approx 7 years ago. They each attempt to solve the problem of letting the Community vote on things without breaking privacy, and in a 1 PIV == 1 Vote scenario I think. PIVX just never had the developer resources or priority to get started on coding it. But, many liked PIVmetheus solution and wanted to see it completed to grant Stakers a vote too.
I believe such functionality would be beneficial to Dash and PIVX, and would be largely identical code.
One collaboration that may be a good start, is a joint effort on developing PIVmetheus for each project. It, along with 2 or 3 similar solutions, were proposed approx 7 years ago. They each attempt to solve the problem of letting the Community vote on things without breaking privacy, and in a 1 PIV == 1 Vote scenario I think. PIVX just never had the developer resources or priority to get started on coding it. But, many liked PIVmetheus solution and wanted to see it completed to grant Stakers a vote too.
I believe such functionality would be beneficial to Dash and PIVX, and would be largely identical code.
Eric_Stanek
Active Pivian
I didn't want to state my view early on in the discussion. I just wanted the opportunity made public ASAP. But, yes, I totally agree with Gerrald on this.
Eric_Stanek
Active Pivian
@Cryptosi ,
Re: The posts on the Dash and PIVX forums; "Should a PIVX-Dash merger be explored?"
and your comment in your recent video:
"That has come from Jeffrey, who from my extensive knowledge of PIVX ..... I know Jeffrey is somewhat a herald for Eric."
First off - the group decided on how to word the question to prompt community discussions.
The original idea came from Amanda.
The rough draft 1-pager announcement came from Amanda.
The simple single summary question we opted to use instead, also came from Amanda. (Thank you Amanda 3x!)
There were 6 of us in the final meeting. (PIVX: Jeffrey, Liquid, myself. Dash: Amanda, Rion, Joel)
It was agreed to publish the question at the same time for both projects.
So, we had the 'What', the 'When', and the 'Where' questions answered. We just needed to decide 'Who'.
On the PIVX side, it was clear; It hit Jeffrey's radar first and it is a Biz Dev opportunity.
So, it was an obvious decision he should announce it.
Completely rational decision process. No power tripping. No ego. Done.
It saddens me to hear you frame things the way you do. This conspiracy crap harms both projects and your channel.
Further, you are promoting something that doesn't exist and you hate, yet you keep it alive and support it with your comments.
Do better Carl. Ask questions. Don't make assumptions.
Re: The posts on the Dash and PIVX forums; "Should a PIVX-Dash merger be explored?"
and your comment in your recent video:
"That has come from Jeffrey, who from my extensive knowledge of PIVX ..... I know Jeffrey is somewhat a herald for Eric."
First off - the group decided on how to word the question to prompt community discussions.
The original idea came from Amanda.
The rough draft 1-pager announcement came from Amanda.
The simple single summary question we opted to use instead, also came from Amanda. (Thank you Amanda 3x!)
There were 6 of us in the final meeting. (PIVX: Jeffrey, Liquid, myself. Dash: Amanda, Rion, Joel)
It was agreed to publish the question at the same time for both projects.
So, we had the 'What', the 'When', and the 'Where' questions answered. We just needed to decide 'Who'.
On the PIVX side, it was clear; It hit Jeffrey's radar first and it is a Biz Dev opportunity.
So, it was an obvious decision he should announce it.
Completely rational decision process. No power tripping. No ego. Done.
It saddens me to hear you frame things the way you do. This conspiracy crap harms both projects and your channel.
Further, you are promoting something that doesn't exist and you hate, yet you keep it alive and support it with your comments.
Do better Carl. Ask questions. Don't make assumptions.
Eric_Stanek
Active Pivian
Dash is at $38 and a MN is 1,000 Dash.
So, 1 Dash MN is $38,000.
PIVX is at $0.38 and a MN is 10,000 PIVX.
So, 1 PIVX MN is $3,800.
Or, 1 Dash MN can buy 10 PIVX MNs.
That gives the MNO 10x the votes they had.
Dash MNs earn approx 9%.
PIVX MNs earn approx 18%.
Dash price has dropped 43% in 1 year.
PIVX price has dropped 3% in 1 year.
Numbers don't lie.
The decision is NOT hard.
So, 1 Dash MN is $38,000.
PIVX is at $0.38 and a MN is 10,000 PIVX.
So, 1 PIVX MN is $3,800.
Or, 1 Dash MN can buy 10 PIVX MNs.
That gives the MNO 10x the votes they had.
Dash MNs earn approx 9%.
PIVX MNs earn approx 18%.
Dash price has dropped 43% in 1 year.
PIVX price has dropped 3% in 1 year.
Numbers don't lie.
The decision is NOT hard.
Cryptosi
Active Pivian
I think out loud, it's fun. No need to take everything so seriously.
The truth is however you were in the room, so at least I got that right
either way, I think it was a good thought experiment and as I've said before many times I'm glad you guys done it and especially glad that it was made public so quickly.
Don't cling on to the negative, I said 30 minutes worth of things in my video, you only comment on one line. That harms your brand Eric, and kittens, it harms kittens too.